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Tank Optimization Suggestions


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And adding on to my last post   DO NOT make tanks have a splash damage option, I use tanks myself and I think it would make tanks overpowered and there should be a troop that well used that

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Before talking about any suggestions I have, I strongly believe that light tanks and Shermans are where they should be. I would not advise many changes to these units as they are strong enough at early stages of the map which seems to be well balanced with the other early game units. The bigger issues arise in mid to late game when bigger tanks such as heavy tanks and super tanks encounter large masses of flak and m40.

My suggestions that I have in mind that I would like to bring to your attentionare the following.

1. Firstly, I recommend implementing a progressive attack range system. Light tanks should remain with their respective 75 attack range, Shermans should be increased to 100 attack range, heavy tanks should have 125 range and super tanks should have 150 range. Applying this system will allow players to spread their tanks more effectively in battles against units who hit multiple targets simultaneously (where we see the imbalance). This should reduce the effectiveness of these units against higher tier tanks.

2. Secondly, flak 36 and 41 should in theory be primarily anti aircraft units however they are more effective then artillery type units against tanks since they have the salvo ability and heavy and super tanks don’t have the increased defence against them in the same way they have it against artillery from the tanker class tech. I recommend modifying the tanker class tech for increased defence to also apply to the flak or to create an additional class tech research that increased defence against them. If tanks need to be optimized to balance fights between m40 and tigers, let’s not overlook flak which are more effective then m40 against tanks with the salvo ability. If tanks are optimized in a way that m40 have a harder time countering them players will look to flak and we will begin seeing how broken this mechanic is. If I run tanks I much prefer to run into m40 then flak assuming there is an equal amount. If cannoneers run both m40 and flak they are all extremely effective against the tanks whereas a tanker running tigers and flak will likely not drop the flak from transport ships because they do little to no damage against m40. This simple fix would at least bring flak on par with the damage output of m40 which still seems high for an Anti Aircraft unit.

3. Thirdly, there is only one available tank unit in the league city at level 5 and there are 6 city and munition levels between a tiger and a king tiger tank. This is compared to cannoneers that have a good progression between artillery, m40 gun motorcarrige and Katyusha rockets, and airman that have access to three different bombers in the league city. My recommendation would be to introduce a league city tank at league munition 2 or 3 that is stronger then a tiger tank but weaker then a king tiger tank (Heavy Persian tank could be a good option) as league city units should always be slightly stronger then their subsequent city munition unit. I also believe that the king tiger tanks should be able to be produced at munition level 11 which will allow for a better troop progression for tankers. This is important because not all players like to use the league city to produce there armaments. For example, airman have the ability to train 4 types of bombers from the city munition and 3 types from the league city. Many airman chose to train Avro Lancasters and  mustang fighters instead of strategic bombers and jets. Similarly, cannoneers can train m101 howitzers and bofors from the city munition or m40 and rockets from the league city. Tankers however, have a very difficult time using the league city as their primary means of troop production as Maus take a very long time to acquire. Introducing a progression tank troop in the lc and lowering the munition level requirements for king tigers will allow tankers to slowly progress into the higher tier units as the cannoneers and airmans do. Furthermore, tankers will be able to chose between making their units from the league city or from their own city.

4. Yes it’s realistic for tanks to consume more transport ship capacity however tankers are forced to have sometimes twice as many transport ships to carry the same amount of units as cannoneers. This does not make sense in terms of troop performance where a heavy tank does not necessarily outperform an m40 unit. This being said in terms of game fairness, players using tanks are often at a disadvantage where they must reduce the amount of units they use to create more transport ships to hold them. They are already at a disadvantage in the sense that skytrains cannot carry armoured units.

5. Finally, I recommend that all land units in a forest receive the same bonus as they are using the terrain to their advantage. Seems unbalanced and unrealistic to give some units this bonus and not others. When looking at optimizing any unit, we should begin to look at where they are at a disadvantage. In my opinion, shooting artillery out of a forest would be much more difficult then shooting a round out of a tank in a forest. 
 

cheers,

TheMachine

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One thing I forgot to mention is my opinion on salvo ability for tanks. Please ignore anyone who mentions this as an option. I’m a tanker and I live with the struggles of my units being all hit simultaneously by area damage units. As much as I’d love for my tanks to have that kind of power, it is completely ridiculous to consider this. I run groupings on my tanks to prevent them from over killing m40 in 20 second refreshes. With this in mind, I could make 5 tigers with a full tac and activate salvo ability and kill any amount of m40 in a 20 second refresh. Please do not consider this. I strongly believe the solution is not to simply do one drastic change but rather to make many little changes such as those I listed previously that don’t risk reversing the balance of the game. I have no problem killing 20 m40 with 20 tigers. Be sure to consider that some tankers know how to spread and play the game mechanics to their advantage so any drastic change could ruin the game completely. One last thing that’s should be taken into account but has nothing to do with tank optimization is the use of elephant tank destroyers. An anti tank gun can be made at level 4 munition (between light tanks and Shermans) I believe elephant tanks should be able to be made at munition level 9 assuming king tiger tanks are brought down to level 11 munition. That will allow airman to create a counter to tanks and properly follow the triangle of this game where tankers counter cannoneers, cannoneers counter airman and airman counter tankers. Airman also have very little progression. Would be nice if they could produce tank destroyers before bombers so that they don’t end up making AT guns until bombers. 
 

Cheers,

TheMachine

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I do take back my thoughts on tank salvo.

what I’m very adamant with is munitions availability timeline.

The M40 and LC bombers are available way too soon.

Even playing solo, I can have LC bombers on day 2 and a dozen m40s within 12 hours of starting.

its waay too soon.

why does everyone think it’s ok to have m40s so soon? They’ve become the ‘go-to’ unit because they are available so soon.

couple that with tactic buffs and they become ridiculous in the early game.

this is why new players get frustrated and leave.

push them back and the lc bombers.

make the king tiger available sooner.

the king tiger is perfectly matched against m40s

no one uses them because they are so far back in the munitions timeline, barely anyone has a lvl 14 city at the end.

no need to ‘optimize’ tanks if you make unit availability timeline better suited to match up with regular munitions.

by the time I can solo a lvl 2 LC, I’m only at a lvl 6/7 city. Artys aren’t available till a lvl 9 city, which make them pretty much obsolete. It’s a real stretch to have a lvl 9 city within the first day of playing, so the m40 should not be available till at the very least a lvl 3 LC (lvl 4 would be better IMO) and bombers need to be pushed back to lvl 4.

the map I’m currently on, I have 30 mitsus with only a lvl 8 city,.. standard bombers aren’t available till lvl 10 munitions which make standard munitions bombers obsolete. Those lc bombers need to be pushed back too.

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IMPROVE ALL TANKS AND ADD MULTIPLE ATTACKS

 

-If YOU THINK OF IMPROVING DEPOSITS, ALL ARE INCLUDED THE LIGHT, MEDIUM AND HEAVY .

THE SOLUTION TO THIS PROBLEM IS EASY:

- ADD MULTIPLE ATTACK BUTTONS TO ALL LIGHT, MEDIUM AND HEAVY TANKS, SAME AS THE M40.

-UPGRADE ALL TANKS OR THERE WILL BE AN IMBALANCE IF ONLY ONE TANK IMPROVES.

-ADD ADD THIS TANK T-32 GALLIOPE

TANK KATYUZKA

100% REAL

 

 

 

1104678653_ww2_Tumblr.thumb.jpeg.8198026f7775527200ac779729079ff1.jpeg

CREATE NEW TROOP  T32 CALLIOPE

Create the Sherman T32 CALLIOPE would be an equivalent to the katyuska, but we would have it with a city of lv.11

- Remember it's a rocket launcher sherman

- If you can give it speed + 150% the same as the artillery has

-Game lord choose stats

- And also create command cards for him.

-This sherman is exclusive to normal cities

BETTER ADDING THIS TROOP WOULD BE MORE USEFUL.

 

 

775417406_TheRocketLauncherT34(Calliope)wasatank-mountedmultiplerocketlauncherusedbytheUnitedStatesArmyduringWorldWarII_.jpeg.8b66362ab4ab886c106b32e00b8bfdcf.jpeg

post-78-1182105016.jpg.fd6c9e8ab5402394c7d18309285e005c.jpg

1104678653_ww2_Tumblr.thumb.jpeg.8198026f7775527200ac779729079ff1.jpeg

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Does everyone understand that having M40 and LC bombers so early makes the game broken?

 

when that happens, not many stick with tanker.

tanks don’t need improvement/optimized,.. just the munitions availability timeline needs to be changed/optimized, so the game isn’t broken with people running around with m40/LC bombers on day 2.

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On 1/3/2021 at 10:22 PM, SBoots said:

What if there was friendly fire? For example when M40's have to turn their guns on targets immediately next to them, should they not receive splash damage? I'd like to see AOE count against all targets so that blitzing tanks pose more of a threat.

This is the best option imo.  Its also the most realistic.  AOE tanks is nonsense, as there is nothing like that irl.  m40s are the cheapest most cost effective unit in the game, friendly fire is the better option, nerfing the best unit, making them needed to be used more skillfully would help balance the game.

I agree with the concept of having tanks like king tiger available sooner, muni lvl 11 or 12 comes to mind.  Another concept could be tech that has tanks receive an extremely reduced amount of AOE damage(like 75% reduction in splash damage) while still taking the regular direct attack damage.  That way it reduces bomber/cannon domination over tanks while still benefitting players to spread their tanks out.

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i have been playing this game for almost 5 years and i am tired of people who do not understand fundamental gameplay. STOP CHANGING THE GAME BASIC CONCEPT JUST BECAUSE FEW SNOWFLAKES WHO STARTED PLAYING YESTERDAY DO NOT KNOW HOW TO PLAY/USE TANKS!

its becoming ridicilous. whats the purpose of 3 tech classes if you make 2 (both ground army) classes to have the same advantages? 

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Tanks are severely underpowered. Artillery dominates the meta at the moment, and I think buffing tanks’ defense and speed would make them more viable. If they take less damage overall, they are more likely to be viable in the current meta

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On 1/3/2021 at 10:20 PM, RadTech said:

Optimization of the tanks would be great, however, all units move very slow.  The tank issue is valid.  Their power should be increased as well as their speed.  The average tank hit points should be increased relative to the “rebel” tanks which seem to have a higher hit point value.

 

I say add 3 different tanks and a tank destroyer that can be put in LC or made in a regular muni

 

The light tank- Chaffee.

It is a very fast tank with a lower caliber gun but more modernized than the panzer III. It can do higher damage to vehicle armourd units but has lower defense this should be league city level 1 or 2

The medium tank - Panther G.

Its a well rounded tank that is a little slower than its original model (last I checked) but it has a higher caliber gun that has more power and can deal a lot of damage to armoured units this should be muni level 9

The heavy tank - KV-2 or KV-2 SPG

This beast of a tank is slower but holds a 152mm gun that can be used as a mobile artillery or a heavy tank. It has ok armor but a lot of firepower dealing a lot of damage to vehicle and tanks. You should put HE shells and APCR to this tank and you might have to research the HE shells in battlefield tech. You should put this in a regular munitions factory at level 11

Tank destroyer - SU 152 or ISU 152

These two models fit a 152mm gun on a chassis of a medium tank (probably a t34 or KV-85) but it is slow and deals a lot of damage to tanks this should be LC muni lvl 3 or 4

 

These are my suggestions thank you for reading

20 hours ago, DTLegend said:

This is the best option imo.  Its also the most realistic.  AOE tanks is nonsense, as there is nothing like that irl.  m40s are the cheapest most cost effective unit in the game, friendly fire is the better option, nerfing the best unit, making them needed to be used more skillfully would help balance the game.

I agree with the concept of having tanks like king tiger available sooner, muni lvl 11 or 12 comes to mind.  Another concept could be tech that has tanks receive an extremely reduced amount of AOE damage(like 75% reduction in splash damage) while still taking the regular direct attack damage.  That way it reduces bomber/cannon domination over tanks while still benefitting players to spread their tanks out.

Uh the KV 2 was basically a tank that did splash

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So Obviously no one wants to admit how broken the game is with the ability to have m40 and LC bombers so early in the game then this is what the standard munitions timeline should be:

flak 36 lvl 2 (need something to counter the flak 41 so early and scout swarms)

light lvl 3

Sherman lvl 4

t-34 lvl 5

tiger lvl 6 (this is when you start seeing a few m40s appear)

m26 at lvl 7 (I have no doubt these would be a good counter to early m40s)

Arty and Bofor lvl 8

m1903 and elephant tank lvl 9 (for those who don’t have access to LC - need to make the research with gold too, none of this bs other coins)

king tiger lvl 10 (I have seen these counter expanded m40s quite well)

 

dump the maus... it’s pretty much useless,.. it wasn’t even an active unit in ww2,.. just 2 prototypes and they weren’t even battle functional.

It is like the land Bismarck,... but sooo friggin slow, a fleet of basic Mitchell’s can knock them off before they roll to the next city.

increase  the speed, it was only a prototype,.. pretend they slapped a couple of V2 rockets to it and give it 100% more basic speed.

 

 

and yes, I have been playing this game a long time,.. before m40s were even a thing and top tier was artys/fighters,.. I think the only active player I know of with a lower member level than me is Zeus.

 

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so many comments and almost everyone is ready to ruin the game. we know how engineers work, they add a new icon and will fix the bugs that are dragging on this icon for a month. you just need to change the damage m40 and flak vs tanks and add for tanks the attack range, vision and protection from artillery from 2000 to 3000 or 5000 for example (you need a test)......this will be the first step. later I will be ready to tell you about the second step

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On 1/10/2021 at 1:50 AM, SlavyaninKursk said:

so many comments and almost everyone is ready to ruin the game. we know how engineers work, they add a new icon and will fix the bugs that are dragging on this icon for a month. you just need to change the damage m40 and flak vs tanks and add for tanks the attack range, vision and protection from artillery from 2000 to 3000 or 5000 for example (you need a test)......this will be the first step. later I will be ready to tell you about the second step

I agree.  or could just change the attack range(200) and vision.  in the real-world, tanks have a good firing range.

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